One of my obsessions is Tony Bath's Hyboria campaign - from encountering it in Battle then Military Modelling magazine in the later 1970s and early 1980s.
Some of his ideas have ended up in the Soldier King project, from his Setting Up a Wargames Campaign,
Famously, Tony Bath used flats, homecast copies with units painted in the colours he designated for each of the nations. Anyway, hunting eBay, I came across some mixed lots of figures which included some of these:
I thought "they look familiar" and after a bit of searching identified where I had seen something similar:
Copyright https://classicwargaming.blogspot.com/p/hyboria-tony-baths-flats.html
It was the colours and the use of a letter on the shield.
There were also these which again were vaguely familiar...
Same figure is here with different colours....
Copyright http://www.rudi-geudens.be/html/tony_bath.htm
The figures themselves are made of very soft metal, probably lead and consequently have suffered a lot of damage from bending, paint flaking and breakages.
I cannot directly attribute them to Tony Bath, but they are almost certainly homecast, do not appear to be factory painted (I've seen examples of some of the figures in original factory colours) and if not from him are probably contemporaneous. They mimic the sort of colour schemes he used, although I have yet to find a full list of what he used for each nation, just Aquilonia, Nemedia and Turan which none of these match exactly. It looks as if there were colour combinations....
There was also this figure:
Now Donald Featherstone's Wargames Battle of Trimsos has a "Thurn" not "Tharn" regiment....
The lettering and colours look a bit like some authenticated Tony Bath figures, but I cannot be sure these are too. All I know is they came from a fleamarket or auction sale.
The figures have required un-bending and repairs and desperately need the paintwork repaired. This has left me in a quandary; do I go for conservation in case they are actually original Hyboria figures or do I repaint to a better standard? Do I keep the colours?
The idea would be to make DBA sized armies (the number of figures don't give much choice in the matter) for Hyboria. The consensus on the VWC was to repaint completely.....
They will probably go on the back burner but I'd be interested in opinions on conservation or repainting from any blog readers. Additionally if anyone has more information whether these are Tony Bath's figures or not, I'd appreciate any comments....
Postscript
Some more similar figures have turned up from internet searches:
https://wargameamateur.blogspot.com/2011/10/ancient-flats.html
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=248078
I note the comment "the provenance is uncertain."
I am expecting the rest of the seller's figures - around 280!
Could be someone else obsessed with Mr. Bath choosing to emulate his set-up.
ReplyDeleteI know my first "figures" were modelled after the pictures in "Wargames", drawn on posterboard and stuck in a clump of clay(plasticine) so they stood up.
That's a distinct possibility. I do however think the figures are old and are re-casts rather than originals.
DeleteNeil
Whether or not they are Tony Bath's originals, I suggest they be refurbished with repairs and a complete 'repaint'. Gladden them up. These chappies look to be in pretty battered condition, and, given their doubtful provenance, unlikely to fetch anything much in a collectors' market.
ReplyDeleteCheers,
Ion
I would take the same path, Ion, especially if there is no solid evidence to their provenance.
DeleteThanks Ion and Jonathan. Yep they are pretty beaten up; being so soft metal they have been folded and unfolded several times with ankles and spears suffering especially.
DeleteThe final decision may be a practical one; I'm not sure they would survive paint stripping - several of the archers had snapped so needed super glue and soda repairs to reattach to the bases. Many have weak ankles, so have had the super glue and soda treatment as a preventative as have several spears. Will have a think about paint jobs.
Neil
What a lovely ebay find, they look great, I too would probably go for a total revamp and repaint, they live to fight again!
ReplyDeleteThanks Donnie. As I'm replying, I'm wondering whether to go for a "black line" approach, much as I use for the Spencer Smiths, using black then refreshing the colours used so they retain the original scheme, but with something to make them "pop".
DeleteNeil
I've actually played with Tony Baths figures, many of which were acquired by a wargaming acquaintance of mine (via the estate of Don Featherstone iirc). There is nothing to say there aren't others in circulation. I'm seeing him next weekend , so I'll try and remember to ask him if there were other batches.
ReplyDeleteThanks Martin, that would be helpful. As I say I have very sketchy provenance - it's a bit like "Fake or Fortune" - "in the style of Tony Bath"! I know that bits of his collection ended up with Stuart Asquith, then Phil Olley and some went to Phil Steele, so it's not too outlandish to conclude it was split up- I'm guessing it was a large collection.
ReplyDeleteNeil
Superb find. Always love to read about Tony Bath's Hyborian campaigns. REH's work is classic, and as a wargames campaign, it has everything. For you to have some of those flats - and it looks like you have something that was used in the campaigns - ohhh if those figures could talk...
ReplyDeleteI think the sword and sorcery fiction from the 30s and 70s still stands up; combined with the needs of gamers to find something unique, with which they could understand the politics and motivations without an ancient history degree - and thereby, create a unique and exciting wargames campaign.
Thanks Darren. If they could talk it would answer a lot of questions.....☺
DeleteAfter I'd inhaled super glue fumes and photographed them yesterday, I spent a good couple of hours reading the old Battle / MM articles on Hyboria.
I thought I'd got enough of a fix on doing Hyboria with the elements I incorporated into the SK project, but I started wavering thinking if I could use historical ancient armies in a Hyborian setting a while back, using C&C.....
Now I'm thinking dedicated armies of flats....
Whatever, I won't be going into the detail TB did; movement by province with a named ruler is the way to go....
I read the complete Conan a short while ago; amazing to think when it was written....
Neil
Yes on Conan - so misunderstood too I think - REH was waaay ahead of his time. Now, I have a pdf of the old FGU 'Armies of the Hyborian Age' if you want me to email it? There are some decent rules plus army lists. ...and I know a lot of the old articles have been published on other blogs.
DeleteDarren, that's very kind of you. nsp16@aol.com
DeleteNeil
Yes, the whole published magazine and original history of TB's Hyboria are on the excellent Tiny Tin Men blog:
Deletehttps://snv-ttm.blogspot.com/p/tony-baths-hyboria.html
Neil
I’m unfamiliar with Mr Bath and all as I was a child in the 70s and early 80s. The only Conan I know is Arnold from the movies. But I bet he would think it a nice think to have inspired so much. 😀
ReplyDeleteStew, it's possible to go off someone you know.....☺
ReplyDeletehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Bath
One of the pioneers.....
Neil
Interesting! As you probably know, I'm also maintaining a page on Tony Bath's Hyboria. The more stuff resurfaces, the better!
ReplyDeletehttps://snv-ttm.blogspot.com/p/tony-baths-hyboria.html
Phil, your Hyboria pages and documents are a goldmine! I reference them above in one of the comments.
ReplyDeleteI doubt I will be able to definitively link the figures to TB. I'm struck by two different units of the pike with an "H" on their shields, one of which is linked to TB. The colours differ. I assume he used the letters and colour variations to distinguish units. The hints in "Setting up a Wargames Campaign" just mention two main colours with a third to distinguish them.
Neil
One of the things that's on my to do list is to try to colour in some of the old black-and-white photographs using recolouring software. By using some references such the image on the site of the late Rudi Geudens, we should be able to reconstruct the original colour schemes.
DeleteFrom memory, the only colours mentioned by TB are Aquilonia gold and black, blue and silver for Hyrkania and red and black for Nemedia.
DeleteYour plan sounds promising, it's a shame the photos in DF's Wargaming are so small and blurry - it's not even possible to determine what figures were used for what unit.
Neil