Just back from my second show of the year, the Other Partizan.
It was very busy but had tailed off by the time I'd had enough around 2.30. Failed to meet up with anyone from the virtual wargames club or David from Sussex (I did ask someone who looked very like him from his pictures but his response was "oh no absolutely not..." as he rushed away from Col Bills and the strange man who had accosted him, so apologies to David and the man who looks very like him.......☺)
I did speak to Chris Kemp of NQM fame (https://notquitemechanised.wordpress.com/ and Martin Rapier (https://tgamesweplay.blogspot.com/) and had a brief chat with Ken the Yarkshire gamer who helpfully was wearing a shirt identifying himself (http://yarkshiregamer.blogspot.com/). I also said "hello" to Aly Morrison (https://alystoysoldiers.blogspot.com/) who said I should when I indicated in comments I had failed to do so at Britcon. Aly and I were following each other taking pictures of games and at one stage a game had Aly, me and Henry Hyde all trying to get a photo.
So (unusually for me) here are the photos I took before juggling tablet and iPhone (don't ask it's a long story) became too much and I gave up.
Eclectic loot - not including some Ironclad log scenery.
Impressions - busy, very, very noisy. Only Derby at Donnington rivaled the assault on the ears! Could easily have spent more and would not have been that upset if I had not gone at all - my back hurt, the noise was hurting my ears and there were too many people! Yes I have become a grumpy old man!
The Games were very nice to look at and confirm my theory that these days have to have large eye-catching buildings, boats, castles, trains on sculpted terrain. The problem is, the more "normal" games don't get a look in.......and the figures are almost secondary. There was an ECW game I didn't photograph that had a town and a castle under siege and may have had a boat as well! None of these resemble what I have ever encountered at a club or game played at friends or mine. Unless you have some sort of dedicated wargames room, probably not that practical either for storage or unless you play games set in the same theatre.
While personally I think it's a bit of a parallel hobby (wargames "showcasing"?) and more akin to model railway layouts, I think the real pity is you become jaded very quickly; there were many games I passed by as (such as the Newark Irregulars) which just had figures with perhaps some buildings on the edge (like a real battle) as they were not as eye-catching as those with a centrepiece dominating the eye. While some appeared to be played, I got the impression this was secondary.
Before the mobs appear with flaming torches, I think the modelling is superb and must have taken hours, the effort to put the game on and cart it around shows enormous. They were spectacular and will feature in the wargames mags. Credit to these people and all the preceding should be applauded and celebrated. But.....
You will need to argue long and hard to convince me this represents wargaming. It represents what you can do, but not what most of us do. Most people's efforts are on the figures, terrain comes way down the list for most, certainly after figures and rules. I think it represents a minority in wargaming that no doubt some lucky individuals experience, but not us mere mortals with feet of clay......
I carry no flaming torch. I agree with your assessment completely. From my (practical) Wargaming approach, these are mostly static displays of modeling skill and not necessarily what “I” consider Wargaming.
ReplyDeleteJonathan, thank you.
ReplyDeleteI have to be careful as I have form on the topic. As it is my blog, those bearing pitchforks and flaming torches beware! ☺
On a forum many years ago, a discussion started involving some US gamers and UK gamers where the Americans asked what "demonstration" games were, as there was nothing comparable in the US where games at conventions were to be played . It was a lively conversation, with US gamers unable to fathom "look but don't touch" games or games that were not really "played" as such.
I made the mistake of suggesting that they displayed the skill of the person creating them, so were something of an "ego trip" where people said nice things about your skills in painting and model making.....
I got a lot of grief.....one person said "he didn't spend lots of time and money creating games and putting them on at shows, just for his ego!" Even when I asked politely what he did get, I never got an answer.....
Each to his own at the end of the day; personally I need something more practical and flexible than some huge fixed edifice!
Neil
Even when I asked politely what he did get, I never got an answer.....
DeleteClassic! And not unexpected. Touche!
I agree too; these display wargames are wonderful pieces of modelling, but give spectators very little impression of what it is like to actually play a wargame. Only a participation game can do that, at least for the few who get to take part. As you say, these dioramas do not represent what most wargamers actually put on and play at home or at a club, so they are quite misleading and risk putting off youngsters or newcomers who believe they will never be able to achieve such standards of terrain modelling and figure painting. If you look at the old b/w photographs of games in Don Featherstone's or Terry Wise's books, you see simply painted figures and terrain improvised from household materials - all perfectly achievable by the youngster I was back then, so they were an inspiration to me, not a discouragement to taking up the hobby.
ReplyDeleteThank you Arthur.
ReplyDeleteI do wonder if the penchant for "retro" figures, especially by older gamers (myself included) is something of a reaction to the superbly painted modern miniatures and scenery so often seen at shows? I remember the stir caused by Sittangbad and Mollwitz at Partizans in the past; these were plain green with miniatures originally designed in the 1960s. Games with flats also seem to touch a nerve.
I don't have a problem with superbly painted modern figures; it would just be nice to see something different no and again!
Neil
Hi Neil, I was there but I can confirm I was not the chap you spoke to at Col. Bills! Unfortunately us bald white middle-aged geezers all look very similar, and the Partizan demographic includes a quite a lot of 'BWMAG's ! A shame we did not meet, maybe another time.
ReplyDeleteI think you make a good point, the really big 'showcase' games are superb as models, but I agree they don't feel like anything one might actually do at home or at a club. But of course, if everyone just brought a typical club game, we'd all complain that they were too dull! There is a balance to be found, somewhere. I thought the 'Giant RIsk' was a great idea, even though they labelled my part of the world as 'Swedeland' ( the chap said it was an affectionate term, and his Mum came from Ipswich ). Very busy and noisy indeed, but a good day was had.
David, all I can say is he looked very like your photo!
DeleteWe should perhaps have arranged to meet somewhere (although that didn't work for the other meet up!)
I think you have identified the issue / dilemma; too much like a "club game" would not inspire (rather like watching competition games) but we have swung too far towards dioramas (most not even moving dioramas!)
In this regard I think Partizan has boxed itself into a corner; it prides itself on having the "best" games which has become defined as those with the most spectacular scenery and things like vignettes. Thus, the number of those games outweighs those without. There were a number of games that suffered by comparison, such as a zulu game with mostly grass and a couple of huts and around the same number of figures, which are you likely to notice?
It would be nice just to see more different games
I think my objection is that the scenery has come to dominate. Interestingly, most of the games seemed predominantly to be using cloth with free standing scenery, which as cloths have improved to become very well textured, removes the need for sculptured terrain boards.
But increasingly what seems to happen is that buildings, forts, castles and other such things have come to dominate, even over the figures and models themselves; often without any regard to need or importance.
It's as if the field of Waterloo consisted of Hugomont, La Haye Saint, Papillote, La Belle Alliance and a couple of hundred figures fitting in around them, with a special vignette of Napoleon's haemarroids being treated!
Most battles featured recognisable locations, but were also very open to allow manouvre. BUA should match the ground scale of the game, otherwise they will distort things. The desire for eye-catching means building to the figure scale, which inevitably means a distortion in the ground scale they occupy.
I often wonder how well these games play and how much consideration is given to rules.
Neil
Interesting collection of printers. The ones that catch my eye are the giant Risk game, Setting the East Ablaze (love all those Peter Hopkirk books), and the Battle of Gainsborough.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you on the dioramic display games Neil. They do attract the attention, but don't represent the reality for most wargamers. They're good if they capture the imagination or inspire newbies. But an engaging participation game has got to be better.
Chris,
ReplyDeleteI'm trying very hard not to be a curmudgeon; Partizan has introduced participation games and other things like the "Society zone" and "author's zone" although everytime I was near they seemed to be sparsely attended.
There is a need for nicely presented games; the problem is they have become a bit stereotyped: 28mm- check; big castle - check; coastline and boats - check; train- check; aeroplane; check and so it goes on.
Where are the 5/10mm or 15mm games exploiting greater number of figures in the same area? Or conversely, or greater visual impact, the 54mm games using plastic toy soldiers?
Why don't we see more games where a particular ruleset is being demonstrated or better still publicised as a participation game? These seem to be the preserve of the companies who sell them, rather than promoted by authors / designers or enthusiastic players. Most are 20 figure skirmish games which is part of the marketing / selling point.
I think we could learn from the Americans in many ways.
Neil
I also find the Demonstration games where nothing happends and the scenery is like a railway layout irritating.
ReplyDeleteThe nadir of this style, for me, was reached at a Salute where a certain "Mega Wargamer" put on Waterloo with terrain built by Dave Marshall, figures painted by other people and included some french in bicornes.
The troops appeared not to move all day.
Inevitably, this won best Demo game on the day...
We have started putting on games as a club at Warfare and strive to produce some striking scenry but the figures are painted by us and as such, aren't the standard you see in the magazines. (I could paint that well but I'd never finish an army!).
We are running a Sealion 1940 game set in Guildford this year with my figures - the german mainly being airfix from 50 years ago...
Mike,
DeleteIt's an odd thing the way things have developed in wargames shows. Once upon a time it was people just putting on games with minimal traders (as there weren't that many about). Often the people putting on games would ignore punters and anyone asking questions!
A few put on the nascent "display" games, but were very much in the minority. Then DM started putting glossy photos of high quality painting in Miniature Wargames and it went from there and shows evolved into trade + "display" games. I've never quite "got" them; I've been blanked / ignored by people putting on these types of games (I thought they were "promoting" the hobby? ) as well as engaged by some players - more often than not you cannot get near for their mates / acquaintances. The "glitterati" are particularly guilty here I've found.
I stress I don't have a problem with the concept of these beautiful creations and they can be almost works of art, it's just after the "oohs" and "aahs" what's left? Aside from the skills involved and the consequent praise, it seems all a bit shallow and dare I say samey? There's so much more to wargaming.
A friend of mine, Pete Foggin puts on games at shows which are not only different, they are entirely his creations. So far he has done Barbarossa as a huge operational game, Bautzen and most recently Sea People v Egyptian naval. What makes them different is he creates ALL of it, figures, ships, minimal terrain. He also is engaging (if you are able to understand a word he says!) and invites people to take part using very simple rules. Now his creations are not modelling showstoppers with towering edifices, the figures are 10mm quickly painted and the terrain a simple cloth - a version of a Napoleonic map for Bautzen for example. But they ARE creative and different. It's a pity there weren't more such games.
Neil
I agree that tere seems a lack of variey at some shows,. I have put on a Toy Soldier Game with Toy Soldier terrain (all made by me - figures included).
DeleteI ran it at Salute 2021 as a reponse to the ultra-detailed games with sculpted terrain to show that glossy toy soldiers on glossy terrain could be as appealing.
Got a lot of good comments and interest as well.
We started running games at Warfare last year as a club to see if we could get some new members for the Guildford Club. We spent a lot of time talking to the public and much less time actually playing.
We gained 2 new full-time members so it was a success from that point of view.
Nice to see you yesterday Neil. I don't particularly have an issue with the display games, but Tbh I generally just run around them for ten minutes taking a few photos. As we were running our game all day, I didn't get much chance to play anything else, although I did have a go at the mini NQM game Chris Kemp was running.
ReplyDeleteMartin,
ReplyDeleteYes it was nice to meet and have a chat; I think we briefly met at a Triples quite a few years ago.
As you say, the display games form a backdrop. Unfortunately, there have been some shows where I missed games completely when seeing someone's photos! I also find they can be "samey" when there is some "fad" - every game using teddy bear fur or the same MDF buildings. While there was none of that at Partizan, there did seem to be a fetish for castles this year!
Neil
Thanks for sharing your pictures Neil - it's all very lovely, but what intrigues me the most is the giant RISK game!
ReplyDeleteIt was very busy all day. It appeared to be based on the UK. I noticed the Great Wall of China presumably standing in for Hadrian's Wall!
DeleteNeil
It was good to get a chance to say hi to you Neil…
ReplyDeleteWe were a bit like a clutch of wargames paparazzi running around the games😁
I think you be surprised how many of the ‘Display Games’ are just the ‘presenters’ normal wargames terrain tarted up with a couple of specific pieces made for the day…
If you make something which is a one off you have to find somewhere to store it…Very few of us have that kind of space.
I thought that there was a reasonable mix this year…
I was particularly taken by the Dalek v’s Cybermen game with the terrain made entirely from household bits and pieces.
Will you be making your way to Hammerhead next year?
All the best. Aly
Aly,
ReplyDeleteLikewise. It was a bit crowded on that last table.......just as well modern technology doesn't need lighting rigs, there would have been no room for the gamers! ☺
I suspect we mix in different circles Aly! ☺
I can see most people have switched to cloths, but there were a few sculpted terrain boards (WW1 trench game) which must be impractical to store unless you have a barn. It's more the huge castles and the like - most of these look like one piece constructions rather than modular, unless the joins are very clever!
Even my modular terrain takes up lots of room.....
I don't think I noticed the Dalek game, but TBH by the time I got to the far end of the hall I was switching off a bit. The noise was getting to me, as was the number of people.
It was a good show; I think I'm just getting a bit old for them!☺
I enjoyed the last Hammerhead I went to, so I'll give it some thought.
Neil
Thanks for sharing Neil, very much appreciated bit to far for me to travel. Might treat myself next year.
ReplyDeleteWillz.
Will,
ReplyDeleteThere was a lot more games but I ran out of enthusiasm for snapping them!
I took alternate pics on the tablet (posted here) and on the work iPhone. I'm waiting for confirmation on how you can extract them without falling foul of some security policy; if I'm able to get them off the phone I'll share on Saturday.
Neil
Fantastic looking games and figures, Neil! Thanks for sharing images of this fine event.
ReplyDeleteDean,
ReplyDeleteMy regret is I didn't get better pictures of the figures; I think I was too busy trying to fit the buildings and castles in!
Neil
I would agree with Martin Rapier that the 28mm mega dioramas perform an important function as eye candy to draw the crowds, rather like the big Warhammer displays in Nottingham, but for entertainment, head for the participation games.
ReplyDeleteHaving put on a 10-minute participation game on the Northamptonshire Battlefield Society, for the first time ever, I am beginning to appreciate the amount of effort that goes into the static displays.
It does get incredibly noisy in that tin shed when folk are having fun doesn't it?
Regards, Chris.
https://notquitemechanised.wordpress.com/2023/10/12/partizan-2023-mock-turtles-and-operation-totalise/