Showing posts with label Italian Wars. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Italian Wars. Show all posts

Sunday, 23 February 2025

Thoughts on the battle of Pavia 24/25 February 1525: "God grant me 100 years of war, and not one of battle."

My apparent silence on the blog is mostly due to a profound lack of wargaming activity and continued lack of focus and distractions. I have however, been reading and researching the battle of Pavia. The words in the title are credited to the Marquis of Pescara. for the unwary researcher of the battle, a version might be "grant me 100 sources, and not one agrees!"

Suffice to say, what actually happened on that dark overcast night and misty morning 500 years ago cannot be established with certainty and even the number of men who were engaged is far from certain. Few of the contemporary accounts agree or give more than hints of detail. "Modern" historians from the early to late part of the C20th have taken bits from here and there, discounted some accounts, even walked the ground and created versions of the battle that have been repeated without question, especially by wargamers....

Even the contemporary accounts were written to excuse or glorify certain nations, with French, German, Spanish and Neapolitans each seeking to take ownership of the victory or explain why the French lost so badly. It has even been questioned whether the Imperialists were seeking battle or merely conducting a raid to resupply the besieged garrison.

To make sense of the battle, it is necessary to split down the various parts into the geography, the forces, the actions / sequence and ideas for refighting the battle as a wargame.

Geography

Perhaps the biggest handicap is a good map of the actual battle. More than one modern author has been led astray by failing to grasp some of the geographical aspects. Not least is the failure to grasp that there were in fact TWO parks, the old and the new, divided by a boundary wall. Many maps do not make this clear, omitting the wall encircling the new park. In turn this has led to many historians opting for a point of entry that is both unlikely and not supported by the sources.

While searching for more information on the appearance of the walls, gates and the Mirabello palace, I discovered an Italian book "Mirabello di Pavia" by Faustino Gianani. This is a history of the park and palace and devotes a chapter to the battle. Translated laboriously with the aid of a translation pen, it demolishes many of the myths and supports the arguments given by contemporary or near contemporary sources.  It serves as a useful counterpoint or corrective to "The Battle of Pavia" by Jean Giono, which is an otherwise essential source for the battle. In particular, it casts doubt on many of the locations given by Giono and credited with special significance. No where is this more important than the location where the Imperialists broke into the park.

Giono, following the German historian Thom, opts for the point of entry as the Porta Pescarina and discredits an contemporary resident of Pavia, Antonio Grumello who gives an authoritative description of the break in at the Duo Porte on the east wall. To reach the Pescarina gate would require rthe Imperialists to first break through the encircling park wall before then breaking into the northern boundary wall at the Pescarina - which despite the name has no connection to the Marquis of Pescara, already being so named. A map should make things clearer; many omit the new park wall and so give credence to the Pescarina gate theory.


Credit:https://www.battagliadipavia1525.it/the-battle-of-february-24/?lang=en

Three breaches were made by 2000 Gustatori - pioneers - the gate itself and one each to either side.

Initially, I thought the Pescarina gate more likely as there is a road and the ground was described as boggy. Interestingly, while the walls are long gone and the Mirabello palace much altered, two of the gates themselves still exist.

Porta Pescarina


https://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/architetture/schede/1A050-00589/

Torre del Mangano


https://www.collegeofkings.com/pavia-park-walls/

It also suggests to me the encircling wall and dividing wall were possibly of different styles. A contemporary woodcut suggests the main walls were crenelated in the Ghibeline style. 



https://www.alamy.com/the-battle-of-pavia-woodcut-image477878287.html

The woodcut also shows the appearance of the Mirabello palace, much altered today.




Note on the map the large and small woods and the marshy Vernavola stream. Giono points out most of the trees would have shed their leaves the eastern wood also having dense undergrowth. The Vernavola may have been wooded and there is a raised road, used for horse races by the Dukes of Milan.

Forces

Note few sources, either contemporary or modern agree. The following represents the best estimate I can reach after consulting various sources.

French

Gensdarmes 1200 to 1300 "lances"  giving between 3600 and 5200 + heavy cavalry

NOTE it is common to refer to the number of heavy cavalry by "lance" - a lance included between 3 and 4 extra fighting men such as "archers". The French attacked "en haye" so the lighter cavalry would support the fully armoured knight in the same formation. This is supported by a Spaniard Iacobo De Neile who gives the French 2000 heavy cavalry and 5000 light - if we deduct the known 2000 LC this gives 5000 - a mixture of fully armoured and lighter cavalry. Some may have been Italian.

2000 Light cavalry including 700 Stradiots, the remainder mounted arquebus or crossbow, some of whom would be with Medici's Black Bands and so take no part in the battle.

8000 Swiss - most likely in two bodies of 5000 and 3000 - many had gone home or deserted prior to the battle. Maximum 10,000 though doubtful and may be many less than the 8000 given.

4-5000 Landesknechts including the Black Band, possibly in two bodies as both Lorraine and Suffolk are given as commanders

53 guns

There were also:

6000 French and 2500 to 4000 Italian infantry. These appear to have been left in the trenches surrounding Pavia. There s mention of 2000 Gascons with the king, but the others were either Medici's leaderless Black Bands (he was wounded before the battle) or French under Alencon who retreated.

Imperialists

700-800 Lances (as above) giving between 2100 and 3200 heavy cavalry

NOTE these included 500 Bavarian MAA under the Count of Salm and 500 Burgundian knights - the German cavalry supposedly fought in a deep wedge formation while the Burgundians fought like the French. The remainder were Spanish and Italian.

1500 light cavalry - Spanish or Neapolitan Ginetes

12,000 Landesknechts under Frundesberg and Sith - probably two bodies of 6000

5-7000 Spanish - most agree on 5000

3000 Arquebus made up of equal amounts of Spanish, German and Neapolitan - sometimes given as all Spanish or Neapolitan - Guicciardini says 6000 equally divided between those nationalities

16-17 guns

3000 Germans and 2000 Italians were left to guard the camp

Pavia Garrison sortie

200 dismounted knights, 3000 Spanish 6000 Landesknechts - maybe only 5-6000 sortied out

All numbers could be much lower for both sides.

Sequence

The Imperialists were said to have divided themselves into two bodies of horse and four of foot - the arquebus task force under del Vasto, the Spanish and the two German bodies. The arquebusiers and artillery passed through the breach nearest to Pavia and the gate itself respectively, then the first of the cavalry with the remainder in turn - I suspect the second body of horse was last. The first had both heavy and light cavalry. This looks like a column which could turn itself quickly into a line of battle.

At some stage the French became aware. While the arquebusier captured Mirabello and the camp of traders by surprise, it seems the artillery became stuck and were attacked by French cavalry (possibly light) and possibly Swiss. The artillery was captured the troops with it fleeing to some woods.

French artillery - either mobile guns moved up, guns entrenched in a French camp previously began taking the Spanish and Landesknechts under fire, causing them casualties and forcing them to shelter behind the raised road and whatever cover was available.

Francis arrived with the French cavalry and charged in masking his guns. He was counter-attacked by the Viceroy of Naples with the first body of cavalry, including some lights. Outnumbered, they gave way. Pescara with the Spanish and possibly del Vasto took the French cavalry under fire.

The Landesknechts under Frundesberg may have tackled  a small body of Swiss (3000) on the French right flank who routed.

The Black Band Landesknechts came up to be attacked by the Imperialist Landesknechts who surrounded them and gave no quarter.

A second body of Swiss moving from the abbeys encountered their fleeing comrades, routing French cavalry and may have been attacked by a sortie from Pavia, they too routed away to discover the bridge over the river broken by Alencon, so many drowned.

The French cavalry now found themselves fighting infantry and possibly the second body of Imperialist cavalry plus whatever Naples had rallied. No longer able to charge, possibly in boggy ground they were slowly cut down and the king captured.

Wargaming the battle

Many wargames scenarios have the two armies lined up in a set piece battle. My reading suggests this was not how it unfurled. The Imperialists should have the capture of Mirabello as an objective.

As they are deploying with troops moving through the breaches, a French advance guard appears -opposite the Imperial artillery -  cavalry and 3000 Swiss? The artillery seem to be alone so perhaps the arquebusiers had gone and the rest of the army was making it's way in.

Artillery is deployed by the French who take the Imperial infantry under fire. Are the advance guard deployed to protect them?

Francis arrives with the French cavalry and charges masking his guns so must be deployed facing the first Imperial infantry and Spanish. The French Black Band Landesknechts are still making their way forward.

So both sides are feeding troops in with a piecemeal arrival. Francis - something of a rash individual - probably thought his charge would sweep the enemy away, so it's unlikely they were fully deployed.

It probably needs some form of random entry with built in delay: for the Imperials (1) Arquebusiers, (2) artillery, (3) cavalry, (4) Spanish, (5) and (6) Germans, (7) second cavalry.

For the French (1) advance guard, (2) artillery, (3) French cavalry, (4) Black Band, (5) Swiss main body; the Imperialists should also be able to bring on a sortie from Pavia - historically a signal from guns in the Imperialist camp let the garrison know the relief was on the way.

I hope this has been of interest. While I won't make the 500th anniversary on the date, I do hope to finish my flats and refight the battle this year with any luck...

Sources

The best is The Italian Wars Volume 3 Francis I and the Battle of Pavia 1525; Massimo Predonzani & Vincenzo Alberici

The Battle of Pavia by Jean Giorno was once the definitive source, still useful with much on the terrain and background but flawed

Mirabello di Pavia; Il Parco, La Battaglia, La Parrocchia by Faustino Gianani is useful to correct some of the fanciful aspects of Giorno

Francesco Guicciardini The History of Italy is available in an antiquarian translation - be wary of the English modern translations as these are extracts omitting any of the details of battles for the most part! For Pavia you need books 15 & 16

Oman is virtually useless. Konstam's Pavia 1525 by Osprey is a rehash of secondary material - the maps for example end at the corner of the old park and new, giving the impression no other walls exist or simply omit them completely, moderately useful but approach with caution.

I have looked at various articles both written and on the internet, as well as various wargames scenarios, most of the latter are pure invention it has to be said. I'd also recommend the various woodcuts and paintings as well as the series of tapestries to give some period flavour, although most paintings are completely inaccurate and speculative. the tapestries are available in a large format book.

Sunday, 19 January 2025

Inability to focus

Before any concerned blog readers think I have some sort of problem with my eyes, I should clarify it's about an inability to mentally focus on producing something of note. I have not touched a paintbrush in a long time now....

Mostly it's due to two factors; depressing grey days; I really need bright daylight to even get motivated to paint; secondly, time....

The weekends go very fast. My last leave over Christmas was stymied by illness and prevented me from doing much of anything. I seem to find the weekends taken up with things I didn't have time to do during the week, so have not even forced myself into doing much except tidy up and think.

I'm conscious I should be focussing on Pavia. To that end I have been translating (with the use of a translation pen) an Italian book I picked up from eBay. I was looking for more information on the Mirabello palace and the park walls, primarily their appearance. Sadly, much is lost. The best we can hope for are the various woodcuts, paintings and tapestries of the battle.


What it has done is completely change my thinking on the battle. What I have realised is that all the modern accounts are selective, ignoring some sources at the expense of others. There is a well reasoned argument, supported by a contemporary source (from Pavia) that the entry point must have been the Duo Porte in the east, not the Porte Pescharina - the latter would have needed the Imperialists to break through TWO walls - the walls enclosing the new park and then the walls of the old park - which none of the sources mention. Often modern accounts just repeat the Pescarina gate theory without addressing the problem of the two walls - in some cases the map cuts off the new park wall altogether!

There is the possibility that the Old park wall was already breached or that the new park wall was in disrepair, but the sources are clear that the Imperialists broke into and pulled down the park walls to gain entry, which delayed them. There are also doubts about the French King's location - the Repentina may just have been a rural cottage and the Duke of Milan's Kennels pure invention....

Along with these doubts has come even more discouraging news. I had been toying with putting Pavia on as a game at a show. I had thought about Britcon, only to discover that this year due to Nottingham University not accepting external bookings, it has had to move to Leicester. Logistically this is too far for me. That leaves the Newark shows, but I'm now getting cold feet about the whole idea. I have even found myself wondering whether I shouldn't just go back to my idea of DBA sized armies or even using the 15mm I have.

The lack of producing anything has also led to considering renovating or restarting old projects rather than new; that is projects I never finished but have painted stuff for. In this mood I have found myself looking at my SYW but more particularly, French & Indian War. I have the figures, a lot of the French and Indians are done, so I have found myself buying large pine tree models from eBay....






I have struggled a bit to find a set of rules I like; before anyone suggests any I have explored many! I need a set that can cover both battle and skirmish - most F&IW rules cover the latter or require large figure to man scales. I quite liked Habitants and Highlanders, but don't like the predictable shooting. I have dug out the old WRG 1685 to 1845, but have also toyed with VnB variable scales. I suspect it may end up as a Frankenstein of several......

Tuesday, 31 December 2024

New Year, Christmas lurgy and Pavia puzzling

The lack of posts recently has been due to contracting some kind of respiratory illness, coughing, wheezing and generally feeling tired and washed out.....typically just at the start of Chrismas leave.....

It has also resulted in a complete absence of painting!

I have been reading about the battle of Pavia......

What is clear is that there is no single coherent account of the battle; both the contemporary and modern accounts of the battle differ considerably - a point raised by Martyn in his blog as he considered how to wargame the battle.

https://www.collegeofkings.com/battle-of-pavia-in-2025/

I have found many of the modern accounts make references to "attacking the right flank" or "left flank" without a clear explanation of how this was possible given the limited maps and diagrams.

As usual, the numbers of the opposing forces differ widely and we run into the usual problems of "lances" and how many actual heavy cavalry this represents...

More problematic are issues such as where in the park walls the Imperialists broke into the Parco Viscontio; accounts differ whether it was the east or north walls which has a significant impact on the battle, or where the garrison made a sortee - I have seen both south and north east suggested.

Contemporary woodcuts, paintings and tapestries further confuse matters all choosing to show a perspective from north looking south to Pavia and distorting geography and distances.

Modern wargame reconstructions suffer from all these issues and more, not least perpetuating some common myths.

These include:

The Swiss - normally portrayed as fearsome fanatics - one rule set had a rule they never rout! In this battle their performance was lukewarm and it certainly looks like they routed in a panic at the end; perhaps Bicocca a mere three years earlier had been the high tide of ferocious behaviour.

The French and Italians seem to have played no part aside from the cavalry, artillery and some references to Gascons with the king. The cavalry in wargames are often decisive. In the real battle they seem to have been tardy in arriving and suffered from the terrain and boggy ground.

The Black Band - of which there were two present. Giovanni de Medici had been wounded (and would later die of these wounds); his unit had suffered casualties and was probably posted to the south of Pavia so played no part in the battle. The landsknechts are more problematic. They were named prior to entering French service and are often shown in black uniforms and armour. It seems the original band were supplemented by more mercenaries for an invasion of England under Richard de Pole. Thus there may have been two units - it is perhaps telling that both de Pole and Lorraine are given as leaders. Contemporary depictions do not show black uniforms, although in the Tapestries now in Naples, a few figures are so depicted....

Maps - these vary but are crucial to getting any understanding of the battle. That said, these vary considerably. This is one of the better:


(From https://www.thedevilstonechronicles.com/The-Siege-of-Pavia.php)

Given that the park was fairly waterlogged and the attack was made at night, the tracks and roads would have been used (there is an indication they were raised). From this it s likely the Porta Pescarina and wall adjacent were the point of entry for the Imperial army (the gate on the north wall above).

Assuming the French advances also used the roads for the most part the action seems to have taken place to the east and south of the Mirabello lodge with a subsidiary action to the south around the Five Abbeys (to the east of Pavia itself).

More on numbers and OoB in a subsequent post.


Sunday, 15 December 2024

Pavia Project Progress

Not the most interesting of posts but one to prove to myself I am making progress after some non-productive weekends.

This weekend I managed to clean up another 42 Landsknechts to add to the 50 done previously and 30 Gensdarmes. Not very photogenic in just the metal but until the weather allows spray priming, they will remain bare and shiny....

In actual fact, they are quicker to clean up than fully round figures. A quick going over with a scalpel, snipping of extra weapons, legs and tails, then a good quality file is all that's needed. The trickiest part are pikes and lances which usually have flash. I tend to rest them on the cutting board itself, scrape with scalpel and carefully file away from me, stopping if you get a sudden bend.

Landesknechts




Gensdarmes



Still cannot get over the movement in these figures.

Sunday, 17 November 2024

Back in the saddle

The lack of activity on the blog recently is due to a lack of activity at weekends generally.....

Aside from the VWC, I have been unable to summon the energy to tackle any of the many projects, partly due to endless grey skies and work, work, work.....

Hopefully, I can get myself into gear and do some cleaning up of figures.

In the meantime, various projects have suggested themselves, such as my long neglected SYW and FIW armies. While there is still unpainted lead, I have supplemented them with some eBay purchases....

Greenwood & Ball / Garrison French




Very nice in an "old school" way and about £1 per figure.

I also could not resist this Austrian Willie general and his Hinchliffe aide. 



Not cheap but an inspiration to paint my own Willie generals; fortunately the style is not too dissimilar to my few painted Austrians, supplemented by some painted units. I puts me in mind of Phil Robinson's (?) fantastic Hinchliffe SYW Austrian army, complete with Willie personalities that appeared in a very old MW.

A friend of mine, Pete Foggin, sent some pictures of masters he has done for his expanding Italian Wars 10mm ranges. In this case Stradiots.



To buy, see here:

https://www.foggofwarminiatures.com/

At present only Gensdarmes and Swiss/Lansknechts seem too be available with various ancients.

Finally, David of the Ragged Soldier blog (https://russetcoatcpt.blogspot.com/) mentioned he had been to the NAM in Chelsea and seen the Siborne Waterloo diorama. There were in fact two a small and large, the small resides in the Armouries Leeds. I didn't post previously as the pictures are not of the best as it was very difficult to photograph. Online articles suggest the figures are 25mm but appear much smaller - scale creep even in the C19th?






Despite restoration and conservation (including making replacement figures) it looks a bit sad and worn. Anthony Clipsom indicated there's a viewer to see the figures in close up, but I missed that.

Sunday, 3 November 2024

Pavia inspiration and a trip to Fiasco

Last weekend saw a trip to the Fiasco wargames show and the Royal Armouries in Leeds.

Fiasco was disappointing; the games were mostly small with a lot of fantasy and sci-fi, the venue itself (across from the Armouries) a bit gloomy. Trade stands were OK and I came away with some paints and brushes. I noted a couple of tables where games had failed tom turn up (never a good look) but on the whole it had more of the feel of a club night.

While I have complained about large demonstration games, this was the opposite, small niche games or 5mm /15mm often on plain cloth. The biggest was a Battletech game with very nice scenery.

I think somewhere in between club type games and elaborate demonstration games is the answer with some of the others mixed in. At least a lot appeared to be participation.

The only temptation was Anschluss' 1:144 armour, but I resisted.

Naval landing skirmish





Cthulu Mountains of Madness




VBCW

Castles in the Sky Agean sky battle


What a Cowboy


Cold War turns Hot


Battletech Big Red Button



The Armouries was busy, and a bit dark for photos. A lot of reflected light.

Pavia














Sunday, 22 September 2024

Swiss and desert distractions

Decided to check how the various Swiss contingents I had painted matched with each other colour wise and what they would look like all together.

There are rather a lot of  Swiss now.....



Some shots of massed pike



In the attack


Flankers


Must get the bases painted and the figures varnished and based properly.

Having obtained my copy of "Not Quite Mechanised" by Chris Kemp:

https://notquitemechanised.blogspot.com/

https://notquitemechanised.blogspot.com/2021/06/follow-not-quite-mechanised-on.html

I have been thinking of Western Desert WW2 as well as how well they will work for Arab-Israeli 1967 (to say nothing of Indo-Pak 1965). This has mostly consisted of digging out boxes of stuff, mulling over orbats and wrestling with how many infantry to put on a base.....

I thought I was going down the Megablitz route which in 20mm has two figures in a 40mm square base. NQM is more agnostic on base size and it seems Chris happily uses all sorts together. As NQM is hex based, it's more about how many SPs are allowed in a hex, each standard battalion having 3sp, with maximum occupancy 7-9 SP.

For Megablitz (starting with AIW) I had moved to the idea of 2 mechanised or 3 foot infantry on a 40mm square base.Now I'm contemplating 50mm wide bases with 4-5 figures, partly due to realising how quick I can paint up 20mm plastics and aesthetics (I think 4-5 infantry look nicer). However, I have to think about what will fir in a hex. Most of my hex cloths use a 100mm / 4" hex which means 50mm width is probably the max - it also has to fit with vehicle bases which are likely to be 40-50mm depending on the vehicle; experiments with card and figures is inconclusive. 50mm starts to look crowded, so I'm now  dithering between 3 on a 40mm base or going for something like 60x30mm and 4-5 but that takes up a lot of space.....

Decisions, decisions..... 

Rain stops painting - midweek update

The lack of blog posts is mainly due to getting on with the Caesar in Gaul project. Sadly, as one of the areas in the UK experiencing torren...